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HROARR.COM •Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?
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Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 10:14 pm
by Eric Hejdström
I have for some time wondered if anyone have come by an illustrated version of this manuscript. I have read the english translation and we did some interpretations a few years back but it would be interesting if there was any pictorial material regarding this particular manuscript. Even if it's only pictures that could be asociated with it. So far I have only see pollaxe as very small parts of other manuscripts covering polearms.

What are you thoughts on this?

Re: Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:32 am
by Hugh Knight
Hello Eric,

As far as I know, Le Jeu was intended to be illustrated but never was.

As for "pictures that could go with it", I am forced to admit to having recently pusblished a book that contains the vast majority of the plays in Le Jeu (along with those from the German sources, such as Talhoffer and Kal). It can be found here for a perfect-bound softcover edition:
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... at/7621697
Or here for a spiral-bound edition (so it will lay open flat at practice):
http://www.lulu.com/content/paperback-b ... at/7604941

Re: Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:24 am
by Roger N
No period illustrations for you, but you may be interestind in browsing these links:

http://www.the-exiles.org/Article%20Le% ... Lesson.htm

http://www.thearma.org/spotlight/NotesL ... AHACHE.htm

http://www.nada.kth.se/~jsh/hobby/tekniker/poleaxe.html

If you are interested in halberd-like weapons, you may also be interested in reading Paulus Hector Mair and Joachim Meyer, both of which have been republished in modern interpretations. They both av good sections on various polearms.

Digital versions can be found here: http://www.hroarr.com/manuscripts.html

The books can be found here: http://www.adlibris.com/se/product.aspx?isbn=1853676438
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polearms-Paulus ... 699&sr=8-1 (Out of stock, but available as "used".)

Hugh's book looks promising and I will certainly order myself a copy soon.

I have made a list of European Polearms sources here:
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=149

And, there are plenty of skilled people here already that I am sure will be able to help you with any questions you may have. :)

Here are a few clips as well.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0__qAg3jRew

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMb8hCWYFEg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVBTRFQqKGA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTVC25hYJaY&feature=related

Re: Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:10 am
by Hugh Knight
Here is a short overview of pollaxe techniques that might be useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4TKHBoaK5o

Re: Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 11:53 pm
by Eric Hejdström
thanks for the massive info guys. Hmm. Gonna be hard to sort this out in my head. Until my knees have healed again I won't have any good oportunity to practice at all.

Something that has bugged me for quite some time is how are these teqniques would work on the battlefield, where obviously, one have not the same room for your weapon as in a duel or in a bout. It would be very interesting to try this our in groupsparring with two opposing forces, either with pollaxe only or with a mixed set or polearms...

Re: Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:25 am
by Hugh Knight
Eric Hejdström wrote:thanks for the massive info guys. Hmm. Gonna be hard to sort this out in my head. Until my knees have healed again I won't have any good oportunity to practice at all.

Something that has bugged me for quite some time is how are these teqniques would work on the battlefield, where obviously, one have not the same room for your weapon as in a duel or in a bout. It would be very interesting to try this our in groupsparring with two opposing forces, either with pollaxe only or with a mixed set or polearms...
Hello Eric,

These techniques were never intended for the battlefield: They are for the lists, either for friendly(ish) deeds of arms or lethal Kampffechten, where you fight one-on-one (even if several people are in the lists together). In my pollaxe book I gave you the link for you will find a page showing you one reason these techniques don't work well in war: you simply don't have room to do them. Holding your axe in thirds (as most manuals show) you will hit the guy on one side of you when you use one end of your axe and the man on the other side when you use the other end of your axe. Moreover, many of the techniques would be useless in a line of battle because you couldn't use them. For example, what good is it to throw someone down in his own line? You won't be able to get at him because his buddies will kill you as you try to do so.

I believe that in war you hold your axe by the bottom third (the queue) and either thrust with the top spike (the dague) or try to cut enemy weapon shafts with your axe blade (the taillent). Even swinging blows of the hammer head (the mail) will be of little use because they rarely do more than stun your opponent, and if you do that, he'll fall in his own lines and you won't be able to follow up to kill him easily.

Re: Illustrated Jeu De La Hache?

Posted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:07 am
by Roger N
Eric Hejdström wrote:Something that has bugged me for quite some time is how are these teqniques would work on the battlefield, where obviously, one have not the same room for your weapon as in a duel or in a bout. It would be very interesting to try this our in groupsparring with two opposing forces, either with pollaxe only or with a mixed set or polearms...
Something that occured to me is how in Naginata techniques you are taught to keep your circular movements tight, next to your body, that is you keep the circles almost perfectly vertical, and not so much diagonal when parrying. From what I understand, this is done specifically with the intent of using as little space as possible, when fighting in groups.

Others here are much more knowledgeable about halberd and pollax, but this might be interesting to keep in mind, when reading the manuscripts. I do believe you can use some of the less complex techniques and principles, with tighter movements, even in line battle, and only use the more "advanced" techniques if the line is broken. But, I really have no experience of line battle, so I am just guessing here... :)

Btw, I stumbled across this interesting article today, and I am considering inviting the author to this forum:
http://www.practical-martial-arts.co.uk ... necht.html