The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

This forum is open for everyone to read, but only for registered users to post in. The discussion should still mainly concern Historical European Martial Arts and especially polearms, but is held openly, as opposed to the other forums.
Post Reply [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
User avatar
Roger N
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts:701
Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm
Weapons:Longsword, quarterstaff, dussack, dagger
Location:Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:
The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Roger N » Thu May 20, 2010 11:37 am

I am currently looking into the topic of chivalric ideals and how it has been lifted
ever since the late middle ages, no matter how brutal warfare was in reality. (In relation
to this I am reading a new book entitled "By Sword and Fire: Cruelty and Atrocity in Medieval
Warfare" by Sean McGlynn, which is an interesting read).

Hema/SCA/Reenactment are all expressions, although in quite different ways, of an interest
in times where swords were important tools of fighting, and as such it has been expressed
with numerous examples through out time. Some focus more on the ideals, some on the dress
and some on the fighting. This is nothing new, it appears.

In Italy in particular, there has been a strong interest in displaying historical events and in
keeping certain traditions alive. Bologna, Venice, Sienna and Florence all have festivities that
celebrate traditions that go all the way to the Middle Ages.

Likewise large parts of Europe had a strong surge of interest in the old days, with the Romanticism.
The Eglinton Tournament of 1839 is a prime example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglinton_T ... nt_of_1839
and drew a crowd of 100,000 spectators.

Hutton and Castle can perhaps also be considered part of this.

I will try to expand on this topic when I have a little more time, but meanwhile, here are a few links,
clips and images.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/BridgeWars.htm
http://atlasobscura.com/place/ponte-dei ... e-of-fists
http://www.anderssonart.com/perfor/porc ... /BOLOP.HTM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsRqSNSjy3E
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfSXmALnFns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEAy-NGb66o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAutFtg_G6U

Image
Attachments
bol2.jpg
bol2.jpg (34.52KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1751-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1751
1751-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (959.79KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1738-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1738
1738-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (475.45KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1737-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1737
1737-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (568.7KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1736-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1736
1736-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (450.09KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1735-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1735
1735-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (436KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1730-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1730
1730-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (339.1KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1729-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1729
1729-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (515.35KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1728-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1728
1728-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (498.29KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1727-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1727
1727-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (471.49KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1726-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1726
1726-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (413.74KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1724-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1724
1724-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (403.2KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1721-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1721
1721-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (394.08KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1720-Le feste Adonie rinovate al popolare divertimento nella piazza di Bologna.jpg
1720
1720-Le feste Adonie rinovate al popolare divertimento nella piazza di Bologna.jpg (375.08KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1717-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1717
1717-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (342.2KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1714-Le feste Adonie rinovate al popolare divertimento nella piazza di Bologna.jpg
1714
1714-Le feste Adonie rinovate al popolare divertimento nella piazza di Bologna.jpg (331.74KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1710-la solita festa popolare della Porchetta.jpg
1710
1710-la solita festa popolare della Porchetta.jpg (346.72KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1701-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1701
1701-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (400.36KiB)Viewed 10014 times
1699-Torneo di Bacco per la festa popolare della Porchetta.jpg
1699
1699-Torneo di Bacco per la festa popolare della Porchetta.jpg (426.35KiB)Viewed 10015 times
1698-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1698
1698-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (408.34KiB)Viewed 10015 times
1697-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1697
1697-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (373.42KiB)Viewed 10015 times
1695-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1695
1695-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (336.81KiB)Viewed 10015 times
1693-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1693
1693-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (352.9KiB)Viewed 10015 times
1691-Festa de Vino a Bologna.jpg
1691
1691-Festa de Vino a Bologna.jpg (678.01KiB)Viewed 10015 times
1667-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg
1667
1667-La festa popolare della Porchetta fatta in Bologna.jpg (320.25KiB)Viewed 10015 times
Roger Norling

Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild

Member of MFFG
http://www.freifechter.com

Member of HEMAC
http://www.hemac.org

Chief editor HROARR
http://www.hroarr.com
User avatar
Roger N
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts:701
Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm
Weapons:Longsword, quarterstaff, dussack, dagger
Location:Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Italians know how to party...

Post by Roger N » Thu May 20, 2010 11:44 am

And here are a few images of Hutton. Just for fun. :)
Attachments
swordbuckler.jpg
swordbuckler.jpg (43.51KiB)Viewed 10014 times
fencinglecture.jpg
fencinglecture.jpg (23.16KiB)Viewed 10014 times
c0063102_4a8d540c15e3a.jpg
c0063102_4a8d540c15e3a.jpg (64.73KiB)Viewed 10014 times
2handers.jpg
2handers.jpg (14.32KiB)Viewed 10014 times
Roger Norling

Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild

Member of MFFG
http://www.freifechter.com

Member of HEMAC
http://www.hemac.org

Chief editor HROARR
http://www.hroarr.com
User avatar
Roger N
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts:701
Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm
Weapons:Longsword, quarterstaff, dussack, dagger
Location:Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Roger N » Thu May 20, 2010 1:26 pm

And of course the art of duelling never really ceases to exist until the 60's.

Also, Mensur appears to be what is left of the fechtschulen, as they came to
be more associated with the universities. At least this is my current impression.

Here is an image from 1497 of students practicing early mensuren, or just messing
about, at the Erfurt University.
Attachments
Erfurter-Sudentenunruhen-EARLY-MENSUR.jpg
Erfurter-Sudentenunruhen-EARLY-MENSUR.jpg (400.69KiB)Viewed 10012 times
Roger Norling

Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild

Member of MFFG
http://www.freifechter.com

Member of HEMAC
http://www.hemac.org

Chief editor HROARR
http://www.hroarr.com
Kevin Maurer
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Re: The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Kevin Maurer » Thu May 20, 2010 3:06 pm

Roger, Outstanding images! Thanks, especially those from Hutton, with the BlossSchwerts.
I have often contended that the Modern re-enactors or SCA people, or just anyone who seeks to glorify the
heritage of old, are practicing a Historically accurate portion of these Original Arts. We know from history that the Spiel leute or Play people
were entertainers who travelled around Europe and entertained, much of this came in the form of Martial Games or Dances, this can be
traced to early Italy. And in early Renn. in germany it was practiced in conjunction with the Fechtschulen.
It was a part of the festivities. So i feel that those today who seek to create period impressions, or reenact the
days of old, are in keeping with Historic Tradition. We who practice these Arts in a Martial manner, with intent, often
overlook this, and some today even belittle the efforts of reenactors. This is a wrong philosophy, IMO based on Modern prejudices.
However, many of the SCA people are not aware that what they are doing is just Play. Many of them believe they are somehow
recreating the martial Arts. And therein lies the dilemma for those who study and practice Swordmanship with intent. But in the end,
I believe the Public who attends these Renn Faires or reenactments, are becoming more aware of this division.
As the HEMA community grows, and the understandings are more widely accepted, the differences become obvious.
I dream of the day when there is an event that includes all the festivities we know existed in an original Event. Imagine that,
a reenactment with performers, Games, and the like, that culminates with a Fechtschule, now that would be period Correct!
Great Post Roger, thanks
Kevin
User avatar
Roger N
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts:701
Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm
Weapons:Longsword, quarterstaff, dussack, dagger
Location:Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Roger N » Thu May 20, 2010 3:50 pm

Thanks for the kind comments! :)

I completely agree with you. And there are quite a few interesting details in the Bologna images as well,
like the stick fighting in 1697, which uses sticks that resemble Jogo do Pau-sticks...

Oh, and look at the early Jackasses slapping each other with geese in 1710. Or are they fighting for it? :D
Reminds me of a curious game mentioned in the "By Sword and Fire"-book, where young men used to nail cats
alive to a tree and compete in trying to head butt it... An early form of basket ball, if you will.
Roger Norling

Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild

Member of MFFG
http://www.freifechter.com

Member of HEMAC
http://www.hemac.org

Chief editor HROARR
http://www.hroarr.com
User avatar
Shay Roberts
Instructor
Instructor
Posts:42
Joined:Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:56 pm
Location:Los Angeles, California
Contact:

Re: The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Shay Roberts » Thu May 20, 2010 6:59 pm

Pretty wild stuff! I like the turtlemen fighting. Their version of a monster movie.
Shay Roberts
Academy of Arms

Audacity is the virtue that makes this art.
Fiore dei Liberi, 1409
User avatar
Roger N
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts:701
Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm
Weapons:Longsword, quarterstaff, dussack, dagger
Location:Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Roger N » Fri May 21, 2010 1:35 pm

In addition to the Hutton images above, I found this picture showing "Ladie's Night Bath Club Paget Entertainment"
from 1899. Notice the two longsworders in the centre... And Bartitsu on the top right. :)

I just bought this print and will frame it as soon as I get it, although I bet I will only be allowed to hang in that special
room where I brush my teeth... ;)
Attachments
ladies-night-club-paget-1899.jpg
ladies-night-club-paget-1899.jpg (125.29KiB)Viewed 9997 times
Roger Norling

Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild

Member of MFFG
http://www.freifechter.com

Member of HEMAC
http://www.hemac.org

Chief editor HROARR
http://www.hroarr.com
User avatar
Roger N
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts:701
Joined:Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:13 pm
Weapons:Longsword, quarterstaff, dussack, dagger
Location:Gothenburg, Sweden
Contact:

Re: The Italians know how to party... Early reenactment

Post by Roger N » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:42 am

Thought I'd add a link to a thread on German carnevals, just to connect the dots.

viewtopic.php?f=91&t=346&p=705#p705
Roger Norling

Quarterstaff instructor
Gothenburg Free Fencers Guild

Member of MFFG
http://www.freifechter.com

Member of HEMAC
http://www.hemac.org

Chief editor HROARR
http://www.hroarr.com
Post Reply
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/vendor/twig/twig/lib/Twig/Extension/Core.php on line 1275: count(): Parameter must be an array or an object that implements Countable

Return to “Open Discussion”